Still listening to the ep, but wanted to get down a quick thought about (white) Evangelical culture for young women re: higher education and marriage. I am a Millennial who grew up Evangelical, and in the late 1990s and early-to-mid 2000s, the message was definitely still "get married, have children," but they actually softened quite a bit for several years on the question of whether it was ok for women to pursue higher education or work outside the home. The focus at that time was much more on the need to equip and send out Evangelical culture warriors into secular spaces: schools, college campuses, workplaces. In the intervening years, though, white Evangelicals have grown significantly more insular and inward-focused. Instead of sending their kids to the local public school to challenge their science teachers to debate about creationism or witness to their softball teammates, Evangelicals primarily send their kids to private religious schools or, increasingly, homeschool. I would imagine that many of the young women attending that conference feel very keenly the desire (and responsibility) to get married, but if the dudes in their youth group aren't doing it for them, they kind of have to be able to go to college or get a job in order to actually find that husband---or, I should say, have that husband find *them.* I laughed so hard when Charlie bombed at his mention of women prioritizing finding a husband, because that is literally the opposite of what they are culturally and religiously conditioned to do. They're not supposed to show interest in guys! They can't even ask a guy on a date! Not to mention, one of the primary messages they've received their entire lives is that if they want something enough, and pray for it enough, God will provide it. You're not supposed to let the curtain slip and indicate that they can--or should--rely on anything other than God's perfect timing.
Tl;dr: we should all encourage Charlie Kirk to continue speaking to young Evangelical women. He's doing a much better job raising questions in their minds by accident than I ever could on purpose.
I’m cackling at how much Alex Clark thinks she is eating with 62836394 alliterations in a row like I really think she thinks that is the pinnacle of wisdom.
Such a good epi!!! Have many thoughts but the most pressing is that when Alex Clark said “less Prozac, more protein” I could not keep it together, because simply what the actual fuck is she talking about ???
- signed, an almost decade long Prozac user who’s life has been changed in the best way possible by the drug!!
So true. I told my husband (a family physician) about that line and he was horrified. He said, “That’s so dumb. Depression a disease caused by serotonin issues in the brain and is treatable by medication, not more protein. That’s like them chanting, ‘more exercise, less insulin’ with regards to people with Type I diabetes.” I then had to tell him that, yes, these MAHA fanatics likely do in fact believe that healthy food and exercise are sufficient treatment even for illnesses like type I diabetes. Sigh.
The other line that had me cackling was “less burnout, more babies.” L fucking OL!! Signed, a woman who — unlike Alex Clark — has actually had babies.
The incredible funny part that the Type 1 Diabetes Barbie also just came out today and MAGA/MAHA are losing their minds over their incorrect understanding of Type 1 and Type 2….
I am back from perusing the google photos album of the self-professed hot people and I need to say that men are, like, really bad at assessing their hotness level. Like, astronomically bad.
You hit the nail on the head so perfectly at the end. In addition to individualism and carelessness, what I hear from a lot of “hot” right-wing influencers is a profound lack of life experience and a very sheltered existence. They want to keep paying for the privilege to stay this way, obviously. But it’s also a watered down human experience, so seems like an expensive trade-off in that way.
What a strange range of emotions I feel when listening to Charlie Kirk speak. Like instantaneous revulsion, going to throw up in my mouth at what he saying, but also hilarious because he sounds so dumb and is clearly not a rational actor—no one could possibly take this seriously—followed by despair that young people think he is the pinnacle of wisdom and give credence to his nonsense. Fuck.
the other day i had seen his tweets about zohran and devolved into such blind rage that caro had to calm me down, so it was especially comforting to hear caro get equally pissed while recording lol
Fantastic episode with a killer conclusion. I hate the attention economy with the force of a thousand suns, lol. Also, spot-on with the point about conservative talking points for women being a way to suppress votes in a “traditional” family. I’ll take it a step further and share my own personal anecdote about how my conservative father told me when I turned 18 that it was my duty to vote for the same candidate he did because he supported me financially. How’s that for preserving a hierarchical system?
Please enjoy this gem of a time capsule from 2011, in the LA Times:
“[T]he first lady’s push for healthier meals and more exercise, which marked its first anniversary this month, has provoked a backlash from the right, who complain that the only thing here that’s supersized is Big Brother.”
The only sane-sounding conservative voice in the piece was, shockingly, Mike Huckabee, who said, “I do not think that she is out there advocating that the government take over our dinner plates. In fact, she has not.”
Ahh I cannot wait to listen to this!! As it turns out my cousin was at the TPUSA girls conference and not to doxx her but she’s literally the one on the left behind the q&a asker in the linked video 🤦♀️ I was so horrified to see her posts from the event and the crazy part is we are Canadian and her grandparents are Filipino immigrants…like girl what are you even doing there 😭
This was such a fantastic episode, thank you both so much. I think you've conflated Conservatism with Libertarianism a little too much though, as Libertarianism is more individualistic, but libertarians typically do not like hierarchies. This episode actually shows why libertarians and conservatives are actually poor allies and the 'Fusionism' experiment of the 50s-80s has achieved next to no Libertarian goals whatsoever. Conservatism has always been inherently interventionist and protectionist economically in a way that favours an oligarchy rather than everyone. The 'neoliberal' experiment of the 80s was actually a deviation from typical Conservatism. What we see with Trump is a return to more typically Conservative protectionist economic policies, and away from Adam Smith's ideas about the 'invisible hand'. Not all capitalism is free market capitalism, and, oh boy, we're now seeing what Conservatism is when it stops pretending.
Conservatives like hierarchies because they think they're natural. The 'traditional' family is 'natural' and monarchs are 'natural' because those have supposedly always existed. They don't care about poverty as much because they see it as 'natural' and ultimately inevitable. This episode shows exactly why American conservatives never advocate for a health care system like Germany's. Is Germany a socialist country? Hell no. Do they have a highly functional universal health care system through a mix of strategic government interventions, with both state and market providers? Yes. This isn't a socialist system, nor does it make Germany socialist, but American Conservatives see any system with deliberate strategic intervention to make provision universal as 'socialist'. It just blows my mind how little they care about policy.
My favourite will always be when she cried tears of... joy? humour? over how 'funny' Trump was when talking about how awful paper straws are. That was so weird.
Still listening to the ep, but wanted to get down a quick thought about (white) Evangelical culture for young women re: higher education and marriage. I am a Millennial who grew up Evangelical, and in the late 1990s and early-to-mid 2000s, the message was definitely still "get married, have children," but they actually softened quite a bit for several years on the question of whether it was ok for women to pursue higher education or work outside the home. The focus at that time was much more on the need to equip and send out Evangelical culture warriors into secular spaces: schools, college campuses, workplaces. In the intervening years, though, white Evangelicals have grown significantly more insular and inward-focused. Instead of sending their kids to the local public school to challenge their science teachers to debate about creationism or witness to their softball teammates, Evangelicals primarily send their kids to private religious schools or, increasingly, homeschool. I would imagine that many of the young women attending that conference feel very keenly the desire (and responsibility) to get married, but if the dudes in their youth group aren't doing it for them, they kind of have to be able to go to college or get a job in order to actually find that husband---or, I should say, have that husband find *them.* I laughed so hard when Charlie bombed at his mention of women prioritizing finding a husband, because that is literally the opposite of what they are culturally and religiously conditioned to do. They're not supposed to show interest in guys! They can't even ask a guy on a date! Not to mention, one of the primary messages they've received their entire lives is that if they want something enough, and pray for it enough, God will provide it. You're not supposed to let the curtain slip and indicate that they can--or should--rely on anything other than God's perfect timing.
Tl;dr: we should all encourage Charlie Kirk to continue speaking to young Evangelical women. He's doing a much better job raising questions in their minds by accident than I ever could on purpose.
Katie admitting how great her relationship with her parents would be if she was on these Fox shows was uhhhh….. UNCOMFORTABLY REAL 🤣
Cue me telling my parents I’m on the executive board of my local Democratic Party and the COMPLETE SILENCE THAT FOLLOWED 🤣🤣🤣
I’m cackling at how much Alex Clark thinks she is eating with 62836394 alliterations in a row like I really think she thinks that is the pinnacle of wisdom.
Such a good epi!!! Have many thoughts but the most pressing is that when Alex Clark said “less Prozac, more protein” I could not keep it together, because simply what the actual fuck is she talking about ???
- signed, an almost decade long Prozac user who’s life has been changed in the best way possible by the drug!!
how about the "five shades of autism" comment? that speech was just stunner after stunner lol
It was so crazy!! Just talkin nonsense honestly
So true. I told my husband (a family physician) about that line and he was horrified. He said, “That’s so dumb. Depression a disease caused by serotonin issues in the brain and is treatable by medication, not more protein. That’s like them chanting, ‘more exercise, less insulin’ with regards to people with Type I diabetes.” I then had to tell him that, yes, these MAHA fanatics likely do in fact believe that healthy food and exercise are sufficient treatment even for illnesses like type I diabetes. Sigh.
The other line that had me cackling was “less burnout, more babies.” L fucking OL!! Signed, a woman who — unlike Alex Clark — has actually had babies.
Omg as a doctor I bet this kind of thing is just absolutely bananas to hear!!! Yes less burnout and more babies also absolutely insane LOL
The incredible funny part that the Type 1 Diabetes Barbie also just came out today and MAGA/MAHA are losing their minds over their incorrect understanding of Type 1 and Type 2….
Shut. Up!!!! Lmfao. They are so predictable.
I am back from perusing the google photos album of the self-professed hot people and I need to say that men are, like, really bad at assessing their hotness level. Like, astronomically bad.
You hit the nail on the head so perfectly at the end. In addition to individualism and carelessness, what I hear from a lot of “hot” right-wing influencers is a profound lack of life experience and a very sheltered existence. They want to keep paying for the privilege to stay this way, obviously. But it’s also a watered down human experience, so seems like an expensive trade-off in that way.
What a strange range of emotions I feel when listening to Charlie Kirk speak. Like instantaneous revulsion, going to throw up in my mouth at what he saying, but also hilarious because he sounds so dumb and is clearly not a rational actor—no one could possibly take this seriously—followed by despair that young people think he is the pinnacle of wisdom and give credence to his nonsense. Fuck.
the other day i had seen his tweets about zohran and devolved into such blind rage that caro had to calm me down, so it was especially comforting to hear caro get equally pissed while recording lol
Fantastic episode with a killer conclusion. I hate the attention economy with the force of a thousand suns, lol. Also, spot-on with the point about conservative talking points for women being a way to suppress votes in a “traditional” family. I’ll take it a step further and share my own personal anecdote about how my conservative father told me when I turned 18 that it was my duty to vote for the same candidate he did because he supported me financially. How’s that for preserving a hierarchical system?
oh....oh no....
😲
You’re kidding. That is unbelievable. 😳
( 💯 believe you. It’s just the audacity is stunning)
I like these groups harping on the food pyramid which was replaced by MyPlate during Obama’s first term, almost 15 years ago
need to know how they felt about michelle obama's efforts to make school lunches healthier
Trump’s first administration rolling back healthy lunch requirements early in his term
https://www.npr.org/2017/05/01/526451207/trump-administration-rolls-back-2-of-michelle-obamas-signature-initiatives
Please enjoy this gem of a time capsule from 2011, in the LA Times:
“[T]he first lady’s push for healthier meals and more exercise, which marked its first anniversary this month, has provoked a backlash from the right, who complain that the only thing here that’s supersized is Big Brother.”
The only sane-sounding conservative voice in the piece was, shockingly, Mike Huckabee, who said, “I do not think that she is out there advocating that the government take over our dinner plates. In fact, she has not.”
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-xpm-2011-feb-26-la-na-michelle-obama-obesity-20110227-story.html
Last one: round up of links published by Media Matters in 2014, the greatest hits of conservatives losing their minds on this topic
https://www.mediamatters.org/sean-hannity/how-conservative-medias-attacks-michelle-obamas-anti-obesity-efforts-may-lead
Oh, this is too fun.
Republicans side with Big Cheese & Big Potato in 2014.
https://time.com/137310/house-republicans-pass-a-hot-potato-on-healthy-federally-subsidized-meals/
So excited to listen to the episode but also feeling preemptive withdrawals that I know I’ll have after finishing it. 😆
Ahh I cannot wait to listen to this!! As it turns out my cousin was at the TPUSA girls conference and not to doxx her but she’s literally the one on the left behind the q&a asker in the linked video 🤦♀️ I was so horrified to see her posts from the event and the crazy part is we are Canadian and her grandparents are Filipino immigrants…like girl what are you even doing there 😭
oh my fucking god lol
This was such a fantastic episode, thank you both so much. I think you've conflated Conservatism with Libertarianism a little too much though, as Libertarianism is more individualistic, but libertarians typically do not like hierarchies. This episode actually shows why libertarians and conservatives are actually poor allies and the 'Fusionism' experiment of the 50s-80s has achieved next to no Libertarian goals whatsoever. Conservatism has always been inherently interventionist and protectionist economically in a way that favours an oligarchy rather than everyone. The 'neoliberal' experiment of the 80s was actually a deviation from typical Conservatism. What we see with Trump is a return to more typically Conservative protectionist economic policies, and away from Adam Smith's ideas about the 'invisible hand'. Not all capitalism is free market capitalism, and, oh boy, we're now seeing what Conservatism is when it stops pretending.
Conservatives like hierarchies because they think they're natural. The 'traditional' family is 'natural' and monarchs are 'natural' because those have supposedly always existed. They don't care about poverty as much because they see it as 'natural' and ultimately inevitable. This episode shows exactly why American conservatives never advocate for a health care system like Germany's. Is Germany a socialist country? Hell no. Do they have a highly functional universal health care system through a mix of strategic government interventions, with both state and market providers? Yes. This isn't a socialist system, nor does it make Germany socialist, but American Conservatives see any system with deliberate strategic intervention to make provision universal as 'socialist'. It just blows my mind how little they care about policy.
this is really interesting. i think i want to learn more about how these two movements intersected and worked (or didn't work) together.
INCREDIBLE episode
I love this episode! Though re: Brett Cooper... she does slip in a lot of awful talking points in between the pop culture.
the cheerful grin whilst delivering gross commentary is genuinely so unsettling to me
My favourite will always be when she cried tears of... joy? humour? over how 'funny' Trump was when talking about how awful paper straws are. That was so weird.
Bravo ladies👏🏻 conservatism=individualism 🤯
Omg Charlie Kirk at this conference …. Cringe 😬