This whole episode is great, obviously. The part around 1:35 when Katie describes single payer healthcare is ❤️🔥. I worked in “population health” and “healthcare transformation” for a decade, and can confirm that everything you said is accurate. And the thing that’s so crazy to me is that, while a single payer and/or universal system would result is job loss, it would also CREATE entirely new jobs. There would be money, time, and resources that could be put towards way better care and way better outcomes. Also, Caro’s genuine laughter while reading the think tank’s mission statement was the levity about the absurdity that we all need right now. 🥹
“Now is not the time and you have to get in line” - if your boss said that to you when you were asking for a raise year after year, YOU WOULD THINK ABOUT QUITTING. If everyone applied this thought experiment to their representatives we would all be full on socialists, because just like your boss, your rep survives on your vote, your money, your goodwill. OWN THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION BABES. MAKE THEM EARN YOUR VOTE.
We can't post photos in comments? Trying to include my "Stop the War on Workers" sign from 2020 furloughs when Q.E. and housing price booms caused the government to lose sight of people like me who were losing six-figure HHI to covid restrictions (and insufficient salary replacement).
Bold fucking words from a woman who said OUT LOUD ON TV that black kids don’t know what the word “computer” means. Last year. 2026 is gonna suck for Kathy.
I plan on doing my part in making it suck for Kath. I will have plenty of time on my hands after getting Mamdani elected. I am committed to working against every person up for election in 2026 who is refusing to endorse the candidate the people chose. It’s clear who they serve & it isn’t us.
She also has a bill on her desk strengthening NY protections for trans people against subpoenas from hostile states that both the house and senate passed and for some fucking reason refuses to sign it despite it being a wildly popular piece of legislation so 🖕🖕🖕
I accidentally came out to my mom as a democratic socialist instead of as bisexual the other night (one thing at a time) at dinner and she told me, a 32 year old man, that I probably wasn’t, really. I send her the free episodes of DL as my way of saying, “It’s not a phase, mom, gawd!”
Thanks for another great episode—I didn’t realize until tonight that I did not really know the difference between being liberal and being progressive.
I think I’ve known for a while that Democrats are just Republican Lite in terms of policies but this episode really helped me put a finger on the idea that they also have the same tactics, namely: fascism lite. The bald faced refusal of the party to accept Zohran’s overwhelming win makes it very apparent they don’t care about governing with the consent of the governed, their refusal to listen to the 3/4ths of the country that is against the genocide in Gaza…they aren’t even trying to hide that they think they are smarter and more deserving of deciding the direction of the country than any plurality of the citizenry. Not very dEfEnDiNg DeMoCrAcY of them! They dont have a vision past gaining power because they clearly dont want anything different they just want their friends in charge so they can benefit.
P.S. another master stroke from Nick on the sound design for this episode, 🤟🏼ABUNDANCE🎸
P.P.S. Katie finding a way to work in how Nordic countries have had some economic issues figured out for decades, fork found in kitchen (complimentary, love Norway’s #1 fan)
Okay while you were talking about Jacob Frey, I had an ep request idea: would LOVE a deep dive into the current party leadership’s/2028 “frontrunners’” record on working against progressives. Could do a whole 2 hours on Buttigieg and Newsom alone I think 🙃
Just to add a little more color to the mayoral race in Minneapolis, a couple of days ago I went to a forum for the candidates put on by immigrants rights, labor unions, and renters rights orgs and Frey TURNED THEM DOWN. Didn’t show up. Fucking unreal. Like, tell us who you serve without saying who you serve.
I’m used to you guys having such a bare bones approach in terms of soundbites and drops - like no theme song or segment intros etc - so every time you add something like the “🤘💥ABUNDANCE!!🤘💥” or like the drugged out effects in that one ep it is so jarring and fucking hilarious I love it
Hold on, all those articles from the Argument visited…. is the arguing for something in the room with us??? Sounds like they were arguing against things and persuading people to keep on keeping on with the status quo. This is what rich people throw their money at urghhhhh
Great episode! Been curious to find out if you guys would talk about The Arguement ever since I learned who Jerusalem Demsas was from a quote on housing in Katie's MWK newsletter, and then heard her talk about neoliberalism on The Bulwark the very next day.
Anyways, thanks for helping me to deprogram my brain from believing that liberalism is the opposite of conservatism (was it just me that thought that? Or is that what my mostly white/conservative midwestern community wanted me to think?)
The point about liberalism being an ideology but being treated as The Truth by its disciples is SUCH an important point. I follow some annoying progressive classic liberals on bluesky to not be soooo in my own online bubble (lol, I have the conservative contingency covered in my own family), and the condescension they have toward the left/confidence with which they defend the increasingly impossible to ignore contradictions of capitalism is so fucking annoying and weird. Legitimately reminds me of growing up in the southern church and believing in the rapture—“We’re right, and all you stupid heathens who doubt us will see one day.” Truly crazy
This whole episode is great, obviously. The part around 1:35 when Katie describes single payer healthcare is ❤️🔥. I worked in “population health” and “healthcare transformation” for a decade, and can confirm that everything you said is accurate. And the thing that’s so crazy to me is that, while a single payer and/or universal system would result is job loss, it would also CREATE entirely new jobs. There would be money, time, and resources that could be put towards way better care and way better outcomes. Also, Caro’s genuine laughter while reading the think tank’s mission statement was the levity about the absurdity that we all need right now. 🥹
The real question is: What did you think of Caro’s sexy dream about Ezra Klein
😂
“Now is not the time and you have to get in line” - if your boss said that to you when you were asking for a raise year after year, YOU WOULD THINK ABOUT QUITTING. If everyone applied this thought experiment to their representatives we would all be full on socialists, because just like your boss, your rep survives on your vote, your money, your goodwill. OWN THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION BABES. MAKE THEM EARN YOUR VOTE.
*strategically blocking off 90 minutes at 1.5× speed today*
51 minutes in and the notes app is already deeper than I know I'll have time to write it a comment 😂. C'est la vie.
Hayek! Austrian economics! Katie this outline is *sharp.*
https://mises.org/mises-wire/mises-versus-hayek-future-civilization
https://mises.org/mises-daily/why-mises-and-not-hayek
We can't post photos in comments? Trying to include my "Stop the War on Workers" sign from 2020 furloughs when Q.E. and housing price booms caused the government to lose sight of people like me who were losing six-figure HHI to covid restrictions (and insufficient salary replacement).
Bold fucking words from a woman who said OUT LOUD ON TV that black kids don’t know what the word “computer” means. Last year. 2026 is gonna suck for Kathy.
I plan on doing my part in making it suck for Kath. I will have plenty of time on my hands after getting Mamdani elected. I am committed to working against every person up for election in 2026 who is refusing to endorse the candidate the people chose. It’s clear who they serve & it isn’t us.
She also has a bill on her desk strengthening NY protections for trans people against subpoenas from hostile states that both the house and senate passed and for some fucking reason refuses to sign it despite it being a wildly popular piece of legislation so 🖕🖕🖕
I accidentally came out to my mom as a democratic socialist instead of as bisexual the other night (one thing at a time) at dinner and she told me, a 32 year old man, that I probably wasn’t, really. I send her the free episodes of DL as my way of saying, “It’s not a phase, mom, gawd!”
Thanks for another great episode—I didn’t realize until tonight that I did not really know the difference between being liberal and being progressive.
I think I’ve known for a while that Democrats are just Republican Lite in terms of policies but this episode really helped me put a finger on the idea that they also have the same tactics, namely: fascism lite. The bald faced refusal of the party to accept Zohran’s overwhelming win makes it very apparent they don’t care about governing with the consent of the governed, their refusal to listen to the 3/4ths of the country that is against the genocide in Gaza…they aren’t even trying to hide that they think they are smarter and more deserving of deciding the direction of the country than any plurality of the citizenry. Not very dEfEnDiNg DeMoCrAcY of them! They dont have a vision past gaining power because they clearly dont want anything different they just want their friends in charge so they can benefit.
P.S. another master stroke from Nick on the sound design for this episode, 🤟🏼ABUNDANCE🎸
P.P.S. Katie finding a way to work in how Nordic countries have had some economic issues figured out for decades, fork found in kitchen (complimentary, love Norway’s #1 fan)
Okay while you were talking about Jacob Frey, I had an ep request idea: would LOVE a deep dive into the current party leadership’s/2028 “frontrunners’” record on working against progressives. Could do a whole 2 hours on Buttigieg and Newsom alone I think 🙃
I already posted this on the DL subreddit, but…
Just to add a little more color to the mayoral race in Minneapolis, a couple of days ago I went to a forum for the candidates put on by immigrants rights, labor unions, and renters rights orgs and Frey TURNED THEM DOWN. Didn’t show up. Fucking unreal. Like, tell us who you serve without saying who you serve.
Related: very interested in y’all’s perspectives on Ezra Klein’s surprisingly clear-eyed (for a neoliberal “progressive”) NYT op today
I’m going to stfu and stop live-tweeting but “the second abundance has hit the bio” 💀💀💀
I’m used to you guys having such a bare bones approach in terms of soundbites and drops - like no theme song or segment intros etc - so every time you add something like the “🤘💥ABUNDANCE!!🤘💥” or like the drugged out effects in that one ep it is so jarring and fucking hilarious I love it
why invest in theme music when your audio engineer can give the kool aid man a machine gun
This made me literally laugh out loud
Not this article coming out in the Atlantic the day after this episode airs. ABUNDANCE!!
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/09/abundant-delusion/684124/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=the-atlantic-am&utm_term=The%20Atlantic%20AM
Hold on, all those articles from the Argument visited…. is the arguing for something in the room with us??? Sounds like they were arguing against things and persuading people to keep on keeping on with the status quo. This is what rich people throw their money at urghhhhh
Great episode! Been curious to find out if you guys would talk about The Arguement ever since I learned who Jerusalem Demsas was from a quote on housing in Katie's MWK newsletter, and then heard her talk about neoliberalism on The Bulwark the very next day.
Anyways, thanks for helping me to deprogram my brain from believing that liberalism is the opposite of conservatism (was it just me that thought that? Or is that what my mostly white/conservative midwestern community wanted me to think?)
The point about liberalism being an ideology but being treated as The Truth by its disciples is SUCH an important point. I follow some annoying progressive classic liberals on bluesky to not be soooo in my own online bubble (lol, I have the conservative contingency covered in my own family), and the condescension they have toward the left/confidence with which they defend the increasingly impossible to ignore contradictions of capitalism is so fucking annoying and weird. Legitimately reminds me of growing up in the southern church and believing in the rapture—“We’re right, and all you stupid heathens who doubt us will see one day.” Truly crazy