I accidentally came out to my mom as a democratic socialist instead of as bisexual the other night (one thing at a time) at dinner and she told me, a 32 year old man, that I probably wasn’t, really. I send her the free episodes of DL as my way of saying, “It’s not a phase, mom, gawd!”
Thanks for another great episode—I didn’t realize until tonight that I did not really know the difference between being liberal and being progressive.
“Now is not the time and you have to get in line” - if your boss said that to you when you were asking for a raise year after year, YOU WOULD THINK ABOUT QUITTING. If everyone applied this thought experiment to their representatives we would all be full on socialists, because just like your boss, your rep survives on your vote, your money, your goodwill. OWN THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION BABES. MAKE THEM EARN YOUR VOTE.
This whole episode is great, obviously. The part around 1:35 when Katie describes single payer healthcare is ❤️🔥. I worked in “population health” and “healthcare transformation” for a decade, and can confirm that everything you said is accurate. And the thing that’s so crazy to me is that, while a single payer and/or universal system would result is job loss, it would also CREATE entirely new jobs. There would be money, time, and resources that could be put towards way better care and way better outcomes. Also, Caro’s genuine laughter while reading the think tank’s mission statement was the levity about the absurdity that we all need right now. 🥹
I’m used to you guys having such a bare bones approach in terms of soundbites and drops - like no theme song or segment intros etc - so every time you add something like the “🤘💥ABUNDANCE!!🤘💥” or like the drugged out effects in that one ep it is so jarring and fucking hilarious I love it
Updating to say he has offered to make it a downloadable MP3 drop that can be deployed at will on unsuspecting bystanders or finance bros at dinner parties
I think I’ve known for a while that Democrats are just Republican Lite in terms of policies but this episode really helped me put a finger on the idea that they also have the same tactics, namely: fascism lite. The bald faced refusal of the party to accept Zohran’s overwhelming win makes it very apparent they don’t care about governing with the consent of the governed, their refusal to listen to the 3/4ths of the country that is against the genocide in Gaza…they aren’t even trying to hide that they think they are smarter and more deserving of deciding the direction of the country than any plurality of the citizenry. Not very dEfEnDiNg DeMoCrAcY of them! They dont have a vision past gaining power because they clearly dont want anything different they just want their friends in charge so they can benefit.
P.S. another master stroke from Nick on the sound design for this episode, 🤟🏼ABUNDANCE🎸
P.P.S. Katie finding a way to work in how Nordic countries have had some economic issues figured out for decades, fork found in kitchen (complimentary, love Norway’s #1 fan)
We can't post photos in comments? Trying to include my "Stop the War on Workers" sign from 2020 furloughs when Q.E. and housing price booms caused the government to lose sight of people like me who were losing six-figure HHI to covid restrictions (and insufficient salary replacement).
Okay while you were talking about Jacob Frey, I had an ep request idea: would LOVE a deep dive into the current party leadership’s/2028 “frontrunners’” record on working against progressives. Could do a whole 2 hours on Buttigieg and Newsom alone I think 🙃
Just to add a little more color to the mayoral race in Minneapolis, a couple of days ago I went to a forum for the candidates put on by immigrants rights, labor unions, and renters rights orgs and Frey TURNED THEM DOWN. Didn’t show up. Fucking unreal. Like, tell us who you serve without saying who you serve.
Shoot a note in the paid subscriber chat if you haven’t already and someone in that group should reach out! The groups are so decentralized / moderated locally that I have no idea lol
I come from a really Catholic community. In the mid-late 20th century US Catholics were pretty democratic (ala JFK). But in the last few decades American Catholicism has been really evangelical pilled. But even now a lot of Catholics i know align with a majority of left wing policies but don’t vote that way because of abortion and lgbtq issues. There’s implicit and explicit messaging that voting for abortion policies is a sin which really sucks because again most left wing policies align well with Catholic Social Teaching
Ok i actually think about this all the time, also hailing from a Catholic community and spending my entire childhood and young adulthood in Catholic school/spaces. I have only recently realized that my politics are deeply informed by the moral compass that was given to me in Catholic school; a literal read of Jesus Christ is basically socialism 101 lol
Same. I grew up Catholic in the 80s/90s. My mom was part of our church's social justice group! I came out of high school big on anti abortion (even wrote a Freshman year philosophy paper on it 🙄) but still voted Dem in my first election. (And as soon as GWB ran for president I was like wait, f that, & flipped on abortion.) But everything else about my values were leftie and shaped by my mom and Catholicism.
I shared your ep with a family member and they shared this Bishop Baron interview with me- it was super interesting to listen to after y’all’s episode. Basically they are arguing that the Democratic Party is going too far left lol. But hit on some similar themes especially just about people not finding a political home with the dems anymore https://youtu.be/JngRoPi54Tc?si=WBlYBY8HgNR9rFDx
To add to what Caro said about trying to bring people from the right (why would they vote for a shittier version of their own party??), there’s a part of a Behind the Bastards episode where Robert Evans speaks about how his Republican mom who, despite being for gun control and pro-abortion, would just plain *never* vote for a Democrat. The majority of the Republican base will just never be won and it’s straight up absurd they keep using it as a reason.
Unfortunately I pregamed this episode with watching Hamilton in theaters and I can’t help but to find the Democratic Party laying in Aaron Burns “talk less, smile more. Don’t let them know what you’re against or what you’re for” versus Hamilton’s “if you stand for nothing, what will you fall for?”
Bold fucking words from a woman who said OUT LOUD ON TV that black kids don’t know what the word “computer” means. Last year. 2026 is gonna suck for Kathy.
I plan on doing my part in making it suck for Kath. I will have plenty of time on my hands after getting Mamdani elected. I am committed to working against every person up for election in 2026 who is refusing to endorse the candidate the people chose. It’s clear who they serve & it isn’t us.
She also has a bill on her desk strengthening NY protections for trans people against subpoenas from hostile states that both the house and senate passed and for some fucking reason refuses to sign it despite it being a wildly popular piece of legislation so 🖕🖕🖕
I subscribed the other day and have been devouring your podcasts. You two are truly the voices I need, and seeing all of the comments here really brings me hope. Thank you so much for what you two are doing!
thank you so much & welcome — the paid subscriber chat has been a sanity-saving tether to reality over the last week if you haven't checked it out yet!
This Dr. Martin Luther King quote sums up the problem with liberals/moderates: "I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice [...]"
I accidentally came out to my mom as a democratic socialist instead of as bisexual the other night (one thing at a time) at dinner and she told me, a 32 year old man, that I probably wasn’t, really. I send her the free episodes of DL as my way of saying, “It’s not a phase, mom, gawd!”
Thanks for another great episode—I didn’t realize until tonight that I did not really know the difference between being liberal and being progressive.
“One thing at a time” made me LOL. Truly so brave of you on all fronts; when I told my parents I was a democratic socialist, my mother cried
Maybe democratic socialist was the + in LGBTQIA this whole time.
“Now is not the time and you have to get in line” - if your boss said that to you when you were asking for a raise year after year, YOU WOULD THINK ABOUT QUITTING. If everyone applied this thought experiment to their representatives we would all be full on socialists, because just like your boss, your rep survives on your vote, your money, your goodwill. OWN THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION BABES. MAKE THEM EARN YOUR VOTE.
This whole episode is great, obviously. The part around 1:35 when Katie describes single payer healthcare is ❤️🔥. I worked in “population health” and “healthcare transformation” for a decade, and can confirm that everything you said is accurate. And the thing that’s so crazy to me is that, while a single payer and/or universal system would result is job loss, it would also CREATE entirely new jobs. There would be money, time, and resources that could be put towards way better care and way better outcomes. Also, Caro’s genuine laughter while reading the think tank’s mission statement was the levity about the absurdity that we all need right now. 🥹
The real question is: What did you think of Caro’s sexy dream about Ezra Klein
😂
I will never say or hear ‘abundance’ the same way again
I’m used to you guys having such a bare bones approach in terms of soundbites and drops - like no theme song or segment intros etc - so every time you add something like the “🤘💥ABUNDANCE!!🤘💥” or like the drugged out effects in that one ep it is so jarring and fucking hilarious I love it
why invest in theme music when your audio engineer can give the kool aid man a machine gun
This made me literally laugh out loud
Updating to say he has offered to make it a downloadable MP3 drop that can be deployed at will on unsuspecting bystanders or finance bros at dinner parties
Wait please can we have this
I think I’ve known for a while that Democrats are just Republican Lite in terms of policies but this episode really helped me put a finger on the idea that they also have the same tactics, namely: fascism lite. The bald faced refusal of the party to accept Zohran’s overwhelming win makes it very apparent they don’t care about governing with the consent of the governed, their refusal to listen to the 3/4ths of the country that is against the genocide in Gaza…they aren’t even trying to hide that they think they are smarter and more deserving of deciding the direction of the country than any plurality of the citizenry. Not very dEfEnDiNg DeMoCrAcY of them! They dont have a vision past gaining power because they clearly dont want anything different they just want their friends in charge so they can benefit.
P.S. another master stroke from Nick on the sound design for this episode, 🤟🏼ABUNDANCE🎸
P.P.S. Katie finding a way to work in how Nordic countries have had some economic issues figured out for decades, fork found in kitchen (complimentary, love Norway’s #1 fan)
It’s like Caro said—“so WE can deport the immigrants. It’s better when WE do it” lol
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DLX-6d0pZgg/?igsh=cTY0cG5wMW1oamc5
Just saw this and immediately thought of this discussion
*strategically blocking off 90 minutes at 1.5× speed today*
51 minutes in and the notes app is already deeper than I know I'll have time to write it a comment 😂. C'est la vie.
Hayek! Austrian economics! Katie this outline is *sharp.*
https://mises.org/mises-wire/mises-versus-hayek-future-civilization
https://mises.org/mises-daily/why-mises-and-not-hayek
We can't post photos in comments? Trying to include my "Stop the War on Workers" sign from 2020 furloughs when Q.E. and housing price booms caused the government to lose sight of people like me who were losing six-figure HHI to covid restrictions (and insufficient salary replacement).
Okay while you were talking about Jacob Frey, I had an ep request idea: would LOVE a deep dive into the current party leadership’s/2028 “frontrunners’” record on working against progressives. Could do a whole 2 hours on Buttigieg and Newsom alone I think 🙃
*sigh* it’s always that Simpsons meme of the liberal diving in front of the fascist to protect him from the progressive lol
I already posted this on the DL subreddit, but…
Just to add a little more color to the mayoral race in Minneapolis, a couple of days ago I went to a forum for the candidates put on by immigrants rights, labor unions, and renters rights orgs and Frey TURNED THEM DOWN. Didn’t show up. Fucking unreal. Like, tell us who you serve without saying who you serve.
Everything I learn about this man is (a) against my will and (b) worse than the last piece of information
Related: very interested in y’all’s perspectives on Ezra Klein’s surprisingly clear-eyed (for a neoliberal “progressive”) NYT op today
I’m going to stfu and stop live-tweeting but “the second abundance has hit the bio” 💀💀💀
Where can I find the link to the region specific DL groups?? Fellow DC based public health fed 👋
Shoot a note in the paid subscriber chat if you haven’t already and someone in that group should reach out! The groups are so decentralized / moderated locally that I have no idea lol
I come from a really Catholic community. In the mid-late 20th century US Catholics were pretty democratic (ala JFK). But in the last few decades American Catholicism has been really evangelical pilled. But even now a lot of Catholics i know align with a majority of left wing policies but don’t vote that way because of abortion and lgbtq issues. There’s implicit and explicit messaging that voting for abortion policies is a sin which really sucks because again most left wing policies align well with Catholic Social Teaching
Ok i actually think about this all the time, also hailing from a Catholic community and spending my entire childhood and young adulthood in Catholic school/spaces. I have only recently realized that my politics are deeply informed by the moral compass that was given to me in Catholic school; a literal read of Jesus Christ is basically socialism 101 lol
Same. I grew up Catholic in the 80s/90s. My mom was part of our church's social justice group! I came out of high school big on anti abortion (even wrote a Freshman year philosophy paper on it 🙄) but still voted Dem in my first election. (And as soon as GWB ran for president I was like wait, f that, & flipped on abortion.) But everything else about my values were leftie and shaped by my mom and Catholicism.
I shared your ep with a family member and they shared this Bishop Baron interview with me- it was super interesting to listen to after y’all’s episode. Basically they are arguing that the Democratic Party is going too far left lol. But hit on some similar themes especially just about people not finding a political home with the dems anymore https://youtu.be/JngRoPi54Tc?si=WBlYBY8HgNR9rFDx
This episode needs to come with a content warning about the sheer amount of cracking up laughing you’ll have while listening 🤣🤣🤣
To add to what Caro said about trying to bring people from the right (why would they vote for a shittier version of their own party??), there’s a part of a Behind the Bastards episode where Robert Evans speaks about how his Republican mom who, despite being for gun control and pro-abortion, would just plain *never* vote for a Democrat. The majority of the Republican base will just never be won and it’s straight up absurd they keep using it as a reason.
Unfortunately I pregamed this episode with watching Hamilton in theaters and I can’t help but to find the Democratic Party laying in Aaron Burns “talk less, smile more. Don’t let them know what you’re against or what you’re for” versus Hamilton’s “if you stand for nothing, what will you fall for?”
The dollop episode on Aaron Burr vs Hamilton is worth a listen.
Bold fucking words from a woman who said OUT LOUD ON TV that black kids don’t know what the word “computer” means. Last year. 2026 is gonna suck for Kathy.
I plan on doing my part in making it suck for Kath. I will have plenty of time on my hands after getting Mamdani elected. I am committed to working against every person up for election in 2026 who is refusing to endorse the candidate the people chose. It’s clear who they serve & it isn’t us.
Thank you for your civic service re: getting Mamdani elected & harassing Kath
She also has a bill on her desk strengthening NY protections for trans people against subpoenas from hostile states that both the house and senate passed and for some fucking reason refuses to sign it despite it being a wildly popular piece of legislation so 🖕🖕🖕
I subscribed the other day and have been devouring your podcasts. You two are truly the voices I need, and seeing all of the comments here really brings me hope. Thank you so much for what you two are doing!
thank you so much & welcome — the paid subscriber chat has been a sanity-saving tether to reality over the last week if you haven't checked it out yet!
I loved this episode, but now I also really want to know Caro's favorite Zelda game
This Dr. Martin Luther King quote sums up the problem with liberals/moderates: "I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice [...]"
Wow. Bars. “A negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice.”